Uncreative Labs

Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 261 Location: WisConSin

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-IBM-PC-AT-5170-5153-color-display-keyboard_W0QQitemZ130044061450QQihZ003QQcategoryZ4193QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

One a while back got bid up into the sky but I somehow doubt it really sold.

Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 138 Location: Lynnwood,WA

That's why I don't bid on E-bay anymore, the days of sniping up a 286 for $1.00+ shipping are long gone, much like what happened to my favorite guitars almost 10 years ago when Nirvana made them popular (no more Fender Jaguar's at granny yardsales for $150 anymore either).

I think now, computer collecting, has officially come of age. Welcome to the years where men in suits are going to be hoarding machines into bank vaults as investments. Don't be too bothered, it happens to everything that becomes collectable. At least I got some cool whitebox stuff to sit on for ages, though they do more playing than sitting.

Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 127 Location: LI, NY

I wouldn't say that. You can still go to the ol' Sal Val and pick it up in person.

...I never really used eBay to buy old computers. (Well, I did once. I got a 386 & 286 for about $10. Neither had hdd's and later the 386 was parted and the 286 is one of my better vintage PCs. Very Happy

)

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

I'm not exactly sure how collectable the AT is, but I seriously doubt it will ever end up in a bank vault. I think the reason why we're seeing less of the stuff is because it is simply thrown away, not because it is being hoarded. Though, I am certainly doing my fair share of hoarding. Not because I plan to cash in on it, but because I like it. The truth is that if I had to get rid of all my crap, I would rather put it into loving hands than sell it to some SOB on ebay.

Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 127 Location: LI, NY

Agreed.

Another reason for disappearing could be failing electronics. We are talking about hdd, fdd, and others with moving parts (even the ones that don't) that have been around for 20+ years. I don't think that span of time was planned in it's creation. Smile

Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 138 Location: Lynnwood,WA

I don't know, I've known plenty of people who are not that big into computers who are holding onto older machines.....Just a few thoughts.

A Psychiatrist friend of mine had an old Zenith something or other he was holding onto because "it might be valueable someday".

I once inquired about an IBM XT that was sitting on someone's shelf, they said since it's a "collectors item" they were not going to let go of it.

I've also had a friend who was determined his old Compaq Proline was going to be a huge collectable machine, went on and on and on about how he's holding onto it until it appreciates.

I think it's possible that some of these machines could end up sitting in bank vaults, all the vintage stuff going to ex-hobbyist computer guys are a totally different ballpark than the machines that have been around in my lifetime. A lot of people I know are getting into old computers, not because they knew a lot about them, but because they remember them. Not all Atari 2600 collectors are 650x assembly programmers. This in turn leads to a whole slew of people trying to get rich off the stuff. OF course, E-bay is the center for most of this stuff, if it were not for the big bad ol' E-bay, we'd probably have even fewer old machines to pick from, because few of them would be saved to be sold for large sums on E-bay.

I notice the most expensive ones, both on E-bay, and even abroad in stores (!!!) are historical machines like the Compaq Deskpro 386, the IBM PC XT, and so on.

However, I have seen people starting to wise up on the vintage computer sector on E-bay. I've noticed the same Tandy 1200 on there for months upon months for $800-1000, and seen less high prices.

As for the old parts, I guess that puts me in a unique position. I have an XT with SCSI, a 286 running a near modern EIDE hard disk, a 486 with 3GB of Disk space. Half the trick to getting a HUGE sum of old machines, is to buy them up as "broken" and fix em up the way I do. Sure a 500MB SCSI drive in an XT is not an accurate to vintage drive setup, but hey, it works.

Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 15

creepingnet wrote:

As for the old parts, I guess that puts me in a unique position. I have an XT with SCSI, a 286 running a near modern EIDE hard disk, a 486 with 3GB of Disk space. Half the trick to getting a HUGE sum of old machines, is to buy them up as "broken" and fix em up the way I do. Sure a 500MB SCSI drive in an XT is not an accurate to vintage drive setup, but hey, it works.

I would pretty much have to agree with 100% of all that you said. But vintage computers and consumer electronics are not only effected. Anything any everything that might be worth having winds up on eBay.

It's to the point that I don't even go to garage sales or swap meets anymore because I can't find anything worth anything. It's all worthless junk or overrated new shit that I could get probably cheaper at Wal-Mart.

Yes, People have wisened up. Gone are the days when one can go into any local salv arm or goodwill and find stacks of XTs sitting on shelfs with $10 price tags on them. (I never really bought any of them as Mac was my forte back in the late 1990s)

I even got my hands on a few old systems a while back for dirt cheap from my ex-employer, who stupidly thought that such systems are worthless. Well I'm glad he felt that way and sold them to me for nearly nothing cause now I'm several hundred dollars richer because he wasn't "in the know".

But selling them was a headache because I did have other sellers harass me and try to stall me from reposting when one of the systems didn't sell. I reposted, and then this person got eBay on to me for including "unlicensed software copyright infringement".. which was a lie. The copy of DOS 6 and Win 3.1 was legal, I just failed to mention it. Fortunately I was able to clear things up with eBay and repost and sell the computer.

So when selling stuff like this on eBay and we all know the market is "hot", you have to be very careful of everyone especially the competitors and people registered with VERO.

Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 138 Location: Lynnwood,WA

TinyTinker wrote:

I would pretty much have to agree with 100% of all that you said. But vintage computers and consumer electronics are not only effected. Anything any everything that might be worth having winds up on eBay.

Of course, one reason for all my speculations is the Vintage Guitar Market. A lot of my favorite models of guitar are going for insane prices on E-bay, even the cheap "reissues" from Japan. Of course, you do find a good deal once in awhile, but you have to look VERY hard, even harder than I did in the days when this was starting up.

Vintage Guitars are often bought as an investment, and stored away in a bank vault by "investor" types. I could see computers going the same way eventually. But also, I see some potential for reissuing going on too, they're already somewhat doing it with the Atari flashback. For all we know some company might eventually make a 386 in a 101 key keyboard with a compilation of DOS games on it. Or maybe Lenovo/IBM could pop-out a "Retro-XT" machine with modern hardware and vintage styling.

Quote:

It's to the point that I don't even go to garage sales or swap meets anymore because I can't find anything worth anything. It's all worthless junk or overrated new shit that I could get probably cheaper at Wal-Mart.

I find cheap stuff at the thrift stores, that's why I stick to them. One popular one here in Everett turns up old machines. I picked up a PS/2 and a Mac SE there for $20. I also found an XT keyboard at the local goodwill for a few bucks. So that stuff does turn up, it's just not as common. So I don't rely on it. Hence why my XT has SCSI and modified components to make it "future compatible".

As for the more grass roots outlets you mention, I never found anything, even when I collected videogames on a regular basis. Most people are selling off the stuff in their garage where I lived. I think I saw one computer, and it was an IBM XT, but I had my Tandy 1000 SX at the time (2000-2001ish), and felt like it would just take up space. I'm kicking myself for passing it up because 2 months later the Tandy died.

Quote:

Yes, People have wisened up. Gone are the days when one can go into any local salv arm or goodwill and find stacks of XTs sitting on shelfs with $10 price tags on them. (I never really bought any of them as Mac was my forte back in the late 1990s)

Man, I wish I had been there then, I wanted a computer bad back in those days. I got started around 2001, by then, it was the 386/486 stuff that was cheap. I remember then that the Pentium stuff in thrifts was the hot thing. These guys would let a 286 go for $2.99! But you never saw an XT, the one place that had them I was a few months late as he'd already sent them to the scrapper because they sat in his store so long. He said I was the store's best customer, lol, as that place was a little hole in the wall with lots of old stuff on the shelves. I think only 5 people knew it was an actual surplus store, lol, it looked like someplace that had been shut down.

Quote:

I even got my hands on a few old systems a while back for dirt cheap from my ex-employer, who stupidly thought that such systems are worthless. Well I'm glad he felt that way and sold them to me for nearly nothing cause now I'm several hundred dollars richer because he wasn't "in the know".

But selling them was a headache because I did have other sellers harass me and try to stall me from reposting when one of the systems didn't sell. I reposted, and then this person got eBay on to me for including "unlicensed software copyright infringement".. which was a lie. The copy of DOS 6 and Win 3.1 was legal, I just failed to mention it. Fortunately I was able to clear things up with eBay and repost and sell the computer.

I dunno how you got such high payment. I sold a few machines in late 2005 and barely got above $5.00 for most of them, and the XT I sold for $30.00 (which I bought off E-bay for $45) got destroyed in shipping by the rats at UPS on top of it. The Macintosh Stuff I put up did not even get a bid.

Quote:

So when selling stuff like this on eBay and we all know the market is "hot", you have to be very careful of everyone especially the competitors and people registered with VERO.

And also all the software companies getting their lawyers rich off of copywright b.s. That was always a worry of mine when I sold machines on E-bay.

I'm holding onto the stuff I have now though, since it seems the well is drying up due to all the computer recycling and so fourth. I may still pick up a Tandy 1000 SX eventually, but not until I get into a house or someplace with more space.

Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Posts: 15

creepingnet wrote:

Of course, one reason for all my speculations is the Vintage Guitar Market. A lot of my favorite models of guitar are going for insane prices on E-bay, even the cheap "reissues" from Japan. Of course, you do find a good deal once in awhile, but you have to look VERY hard, even harder than I did in the days when this was starting up.

Vintage Guitars are often bought as an investment, and stored away in a bank vault by "investor" types. I could see computers going the same way eventually. But also, I see some potential for reissuing going on too, they're already somewhat doing it with the Atari flashback. For all we know some company might eventually make a 386 in a 101 key keyboard with a compilation of DOS games on it. Or maybe Lenovo/IBM could pop-out a "Retro-XT" machine with modern hardware and vintage styling.

Speaking of the 386 in the PC, take a look at this...
http://www.cappuccinopc.com/espressopc.asp
It's the size of an iPod but is a fully functional Celeron/PIII based PC. They even have another model that will function as a stand alone MP3 player and PC.

But as for a Retro XT system for video games all put on a ROM or Flash chip.. I seriously doubt it. Video Games like Digger and AlleyCat didn't make the PC successful. It was the fact that it was a business class computer produced by Big Blue and could run semi-decent business applications like Lotus, WordPerfect, and others that made it successful.

Quote:

I find cheap stuff at the thrift stores, that's why I stick to them. One popular one here in Everett turns up old machines. I picked up a PS/2 and a Mac SE there for $20. I also found an XT keyboard at the local goodwill for a few bucks. So that stuff does turn up, it's just not as common. So I don't rely on it. Hence why my XT has SCSI and modified components to make it "future compatible".

As for the more grass roots outlets you mention, I never found anything, even when I collected videogames on a regular basis. Most people are selling off the stuff in their garage where I lived. I think I saw one computer, and it was an IBM XT, but I had my Tandy 1000 SX at the time (2000-2001ish), and felt like it would just take up space. I'm kicking myself for passing it up because 2 months later the Tandy died.

I still like thrift stores occasionally. I don't make it a point to go every week or every other day like I did back in the day, when I could find very rare Apple II and Mac stuff at decent prices and Commodore stuff for nearly nothing.

The area I did live in back in the mid to late 90s was somewhat "affluent" and there were plenty of manufacturing and financial service companies in that area. It was the heyday of the tech boom and these companies were buying new Pentium IIs and Celeron systems and they would donate the old stuff. As I understood it no one would really just dispose of their old stuff at a recycler when they could get a tax credit or deduction for giving the older stuff to charity.

Of course I live in another area now and have lived here for the past 8 years. Can't find anything like it and hardly ever have unless it had a hefty pricetag attached to it. So it might not just be ebay but a demographic issue as well or someone has connections and gets first debs. But around 99 when I left my original area the XTs and all the vintage hardware supply in the thrift stores and flea markets starting drying up.

Quote:

Man, I wish I had been there then, I wanted a computer bad back in those days. I got started around 2001, by then, it was the 386/486 stuff that was cheap. I remember then that the Pentium stuff in thrifts was the hot thing. These guys would let a 286 go for $2.99! But you never saw an XT, the one place that had them I was a few months late as he'd already sent them to the scrapper because they sat in his store so long. He said I was the store's best customer, lol, as that place was a little hole in the wall with lots of old stuff on the shelves. I think only 5 people knew it was an actual surplus store, lol, it looked like someplace that had been shut down.

A friend of mine would buy those systems for $10 and get the original IBM selectric keyboards for $5-$10 and original display monitors for around $10 or so... put games and software or upgrade them and repair them and setup at the local flea market and sell the systems for $100-$150 each, complete and people would buy them. He also had his fair share of scoffers and sharks.

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I dunno how you got such high payment. I sold a few machines in late 2005 and barely got above $5.00 for most of them, and the XT I sold for $30.00 (which I bought off E-bay for $45) got destroyed in shipping by the rats at UPS on top of it. The Macintosh Stuff I put up did not even get a bid.

Original Packard Bell Legend 115 (486DX class, 16MB, 500MB, SB16, 4x CD) system = $150 and that was about 6 months ago.

As for Macintosh stuff it depends.. My rule is if isn't a Mac 128K, Mac 512K, 512ke, XL, or Plus, or one of the early Mac Portables or Powerbooks, I wouldn't bother posting it on eBay. I am even noticing Apple IIe, IIc, IIgs systems starting to fetch big prices, if you have any of those line, those will sell. I suppose once a system hits 20 years old, it all of a sudden becomes a commodity collectible.

Quote:

And also all the software companies getting their lawyers rich off of copywright b.s. That was always a worry of mine when I sold machines on E-bay.

eBay + Microsoft = Relentless. They do not care if it is MS-DOS, Windows 3.0, or Windows Vista. If you don't provide a COA or meet their other criteria expect to have your auction canceled and a receive a threatening email from eBay regarding account termination should the policy be violated again.

This eBay VERO business is very serious and Microsoft is a stickler on anything with the Microsoft(tm) name attached to it. And evidently other sellers can use it to knock competitors out on technicality in order to force higher bids on their similar or exact items. This is what happened with me.

Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 488 Location: pennsylvanai

how do i know? been trying to give tham away for years
there uis a 5 foot stack of pc.xt ibn my yard- covered in snow.
a big bot of at mb a boc of "refurb": pc mb.

maybe now i should try selling them?

Joined: 27 Jan 2007 Posts: 274 Location: USA

If anyone is interested, schools have lots of old computers. sometimes the local school would put ads on telephone poles about old tvs and computer and equipment they trying to sell to make some money. in 2005 I got 386 deskpro NEW! and lots of used keyboards,an old sony trinitron TV,a messed up pentium with gum in the diskdrives and a compaq SLT 286.

Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 127 Location: LI, NY

I work for the state and apparently all old computers & software must be "destroyed" and not filtered to anyone. (doesn't mean I don't get a thing here and there...) It's a shame.

About the prices going up, it's understandable. (I know I posted a while back but I have more). creepingnet made a point w/ the old Fender guitars (I'm a bass player myself, I know EXACTLY what you mean). But Also, if you look at the vintage cars, the same goes there. You could get a beat up 70's nova from Grandma for $150 or you could get it off ebay for $5000. *sigh*

Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 264 Location: Ohio/USA

Muscle car prices went crazy over the last decade. Its just that people with money tend to want things they did not have in their youth (hot model girlfriends, muscle cars, high end computers, etc). The problem people have is they see some old relic going for some money and think all of that type is worth some cash. There are baseball cards from 1950 worth $10,000 and some of the same year and maker worth $.50.

I don't pay much for any individual computer I collect, but I did pay $8,000 ten years ago for the 1981 Corvette I wanted back in highschool.