Uncreative Labs

Joined: 27 Jan 2007 Posts: 274 Location: USA

i swear im not lieing, i got xp to load on a 386 in safe mode, its loading as we speak. its on mup.sys right now im using tiny xp.

Joined: 27 Jan 2007 Posts: 274 Location: USA

crap it rebooted, but i got video proof! although i said a few pg-13 words like holy sh** its ready to be seen

-----------------------------edit---------------------
my 512mb xd card ran out. it was recording in avi and ran out of space. the video left off at it still loading mup.sys

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

Yeah, I think I did hear that it was possible to boot into safe mode, but it's been a while since I looked into the issue of XP on low end 32-bit CPUs. It's possible that they've made some advancements since I last checked. I don't know much about tiny XP either...

Anyway, if you get anywhere with your testing let us know. I'm not able to do it myself these days...

Joined: 19 Oct 2004 Posts: 138 Location: Lynnwood,WA

Anonymous Coward wrote:

It's the same with Windows 2000 on a 286. 286s don't work in 386 protected mode. 286s can't even boot windows 3.11 or 95, much less a full blown 32-bit OS like Windows 2000. With a 486SLC upgrade chip you *might* get the install to run...but it will be pretty unspectacular even if you get to the desktop.

I did not say that I would try it to get a fully loaded result, the site only said it got it to PARTIALLY load (as in, possibly the boot scren, I'm a little curious), I just wanted to see how far that thing would load, lol. I know that a 286 cannot use 386 enhanced mode (lol, because it's not a 386 or higher, duh), that's not the point. I just try things for hilarity sometimes, even though I know they won't work, because sometimes you see strange results of pre-compatible code, especially in something like Windows....all of them built off each other....or OS/2, so there's bits here that work, and others that don't, but sometimes, you can see some activity, and it's a good way to figure out just how much of the subsystem is part of an older pre-386 compatible it is. Sometimes, programs DO run on lower CPU power than they should. Like Ultima VI or MS-DOS 6.22 (which said on the box that it requires a 286), a lot of older software will run on something slower than is believed to run on it, and almost all new software does.

The only way to know is to try it, unless you dissassemble the code, which could take eons, to figure out what has processor specific code. Sometimes they say it does'nt work because it's an unpleasant experience, and sometimes because of the code, but they never disclose this on the packaging.

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:05 am

Sometimes I think manufacturers write system requirements to what someone would be familiar with, not actual requirements. So if you see something that needs, say a Pentium-233 running along happily on a 50 mHz 486, that could be what happened.

Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 261 Location: WisConSin

Is tiny XP a downloadable or some type of pay thing, that is something I wouldn't mind trying out also. If they had such a thing as reshelling NT4 onto XP that would perk my interest also.

PS You are not the only one to run Windows 2000 on a 486, I have also but many of my 486 boxes have IDE/chipset driver issues under XP not all will work for one reason or another. I also have had 98se on a 386sx but it kept trashing the harddrive once I got into windows, even though it was properly supported under dos & win 3.1 and under 500mb

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

Hmm...did you try using any SCSI controllers with Windows 2000 on your 486?

Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 261 Location: WisConSin

I don't have much in the way of SCSI other than PCI cards, though I do have probably 40 small scsi drives laying around. Just nothing much to use them with save my QLT / Innovion Futura 100 portrait computers.

So if I did find a 50pin isa scsi card I would give it a try but honestly I rather use SCSI in my XTs if I had the right cards.

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

I installed my CF card and SCSI-IDE adapter with mixed results. While I was able to get it going quite nicely on my original 5160 planar, I was not able to get it working on any other system I tried. Apparently the CF adapters vary in quality and are kind of picky. The SCSI IDE adapter works great though!

I was hoping to use it on my Juko XT motherboard, but no luck so far. I suspected that the ISA bus speed might be an issue, since the Juko runs at 15MHz, but I found that this is not the case. On that board the ISA bus is divided by half the CPU speed. To be sure, I reduced the speed of the board to 12MHz, and then 10 MHz....no change.

I ended up just leaving the system at 12MHz, because my 8087-1 will not work properly at 15MHz. The V30 was being pushed too hard anyway. The manufactuer used a 10MHz part.

So, for the moment the ISA bus runs at 6MHz, giving me about 440kb/sec with a conventional hard disk, and hopefully about 600kb/sec with the CF card if I can get it working. When I benchmarked with the 5160 planar, the CF gave a nice performance boost over the conventional drive.

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:13 pm

I've just installed a Future Domain TMC850 (With a BIOS and not the MAC version of the card, with the MAC SCSI pin-out, which is readily available on Ebay, however it's BIOS is for MACS only!) in my IBM Portable PC, along with an Acard 1720U (Not UW) SCSI to IDE adapter ( http://www.acard.com/english/fb01-product.jsp?idno_no=23&prod_no=AEC-7720U&type1_title=SCSIDE%20Bridge&type1_idno=2 ) and a Sandisk 2GB CF card.

The TMC-850 boots and I even have a diagnostic disk which confirms that the controller is okay, I believe it can also partially see the 1720 however it fails to see any SCSI devices attached.

I have tried another brand of SCSI to IDE adapter ( http://www.shopaddonics.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=RADIDECFB&eq=&Tp=) with the same result.

I have also tried another CF card, however I will buy a third as I suspect that my bargain Ebay Sandisk card is counterfeit.

Any thoughts?

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

Wow, I think you're even more bent on getting this to work than I am. You must have spent a pretty penny on all of those bridges. From what I can tell the bridge is not the problem. My bridge is working just fine. I've tested it on my XT using the TMC 850M with several 3.5" harddrives and CD-ROM drives. From what I've read on the internet, what it really comes down to is the quality of the IDE-->CF adapter and flash card. If you're using an el cheapo 99 cent adapter off ebay, chances are it's not going to work. The AEC 7720U has been tested on a variety of vintage setups and is confirmed to work...but a number of people had issues getting the right combination of CF adapters and CF cards. What you'll probably have to do is sink some money into a good quality IDE to CF adapter...preferably name brand, and not made in mainland China.

You should let me know if you have any success. I had to give up on my flash project for the time being because I am working overseas. But, getting my flash going is a priority for my next break. My current IDE to CF adapter is the type that is mounted on a rear card slot cover. I bought mine in China, but it is the same as the one commonly sold on eBay. My next attempt will probably be an "Addonics" model like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Addonics-IDE-CF-adapter-card-adapter-IDE-ADIDECF_W0QQitemZ290186995096QQihZ019QQcategoryZ18872QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m118

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 10:51 pm

I must be a fanatic, it's Christmas day here and here I am!!! Well I just picked up my notebook to pack it up actually after putting the turkey on the Weber BBQ (Weber's are made for Christmas turkeys!).

Now back to Flashing an XT! I have a Addonics IDE -> CF adaptor ( http://www.shopaddonics.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=ADIDECFB&eq=&Tp= ) however still no joy with the Future Domain BIOS seeing the CF card. I am going to look into the CF cards with DMA a little more as I notice that the Acard IDE -> SCSI bridge is specifically designed for DMA drives. I believe that several CF cards support DMA, however I'm not sure which at present.

Clem

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

That is an interesting discovery. I didn't know that DMA was an issue. The harddisk drive I tried with my ACARD on the XT was a Quantum 52MB IDE. It's probably one of the earlier drives made for IDE. I doubt it does DMA. It seems to work fine though. I'll look up the model on my CF card and see what it supports. I believe it is a fairly good one though.

One trick that I noticed that usually got the CF card to work on the XT was doing a soft reset. Though, most of the time I ended up with corrupted files. On one occasion I was able to do a format, install software and run it. This lead me to believe there was a connection problem. Whatever the problem is, it is certainly unusual. You might want to try updating the flash rom on the ACARD if you have not yet done so.

Where did you get your Addonics CF to IDE converter and how much did you pay for it? Is is mounted internally, on a back panel or on a front panel? Also, how do you have a "MAC" version of the TMC850? As far as I am aware there were no Macintosh systems with ISA bus.

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:50 pm

1. Various CF cards support various flavors of DMA. I will investigate this later in the week.

2. Also, some CF cards supports "Fixed Disk" operation and some do not, this may have a significant impact for an 80's SCSI card etc.

Some interesting information on the above points is here http://www.addonics.com/support/faqs/faq_cf.asp

Also, Addonics has an online store.

Clem

Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 589 Location: Shandong, China

That's interesting. It looks like we'll have to try a bunch of different CF cards until we get one that works. I'm sure if we do enough reading we can find the answer on the internet without wasting too much money.

Just to let you know, I am currently trying to use a Sandisk 2GB UltraII Compact Flash Card. I guess this one doesn't work, so you shouldn't waste your time with it.